Thursday, October 22, 2009

Hate Me If You Like

I apologize for those of you I may have offended with my last post but in no way will I take back back what I said. I have seen to many times when this 'book' has been used to keep the weak subservient to the strong and gave permission for the strong to prey on the weak. Its a hateful tome that would serve the world better by its removal to the bonfires of history. I am sorry if you don't understand that and I hope your hatred of me gives you similar comfort that you get from the fairy tales contained within its pages.


Lemmy Caution said...

I'm with you.

I'm sure that comes as a great shock.

PENolan said...

Totally with you too.
Not only fairy tales/myth to begin with but also rewritten/translated by miscellaneous patriarchs within religious hierarchies to make war and money.

For the record, I consider myself a Christian and I find much wisdom in these fables and parables. But that's all they are. I wouldn't burn it, however, since it's not the literature itself but the people profiting from it that cause the problems.

Wandering Coyote said...

Wow. I have missed some interesting drama... I'm still not touching this one though, but you know I've got your back!

Surge said...

"With you?"
These aren't sides.
That's retarded.
We're all people, we all have different beliefs. That doesn't seperate us.

You act like you're all going to war or something, get over it, you're not. I would say this to anybodys face if I seen this going on. I do not believe that you would go to a room full of people and shout "THE BIBLE IS SHIT, THE BIBLE IS SHIT AND FARIYTALES!" That's obnoxious, and I'm one to talk, but doing that would start a riot. You could calmly state, I don't believe whats in the bible. I don't think it's logical to follow the bible blablabla..

but to be honest, now, I'm not even nineteen and I would find it immature. I do find it immature. There are bad decisions that people make, and whether or not you care to admit it but if somebody famous made fun of the chinese (take miley cirus as an example) they get ridiculed and possibly sued. Take into account that she didn't even mean to make fun of the chinese, she just pulled her eyes back while standing beside them and it caused an uproar. It doesn't matter if she deserves to be famous, it doesnt matter that if a "normal" person did that it would mean barely anything.

It's the point.
You set an example when you have a larger audience.
If you have an opinion, state it wisely. Don't throw it about like a shit covered knife.

Wings said...

No hate here, Cal. All good.

Artman2112 said...

well i tried to post a comment on the controversial post prior to this one and either i am not seeing it or it simply did not post for some reason but i sure dont feel like writing it all over again :(

Drake said...

Can never hate the coolest Canadian i know in a cave.
People with faith should never have cause to doubt it if they are true believers and people who think it's all a bunch hooey have the same rights.
And "why does God need a starship?"

Booksteve said...

Some fascinating comments all around. Sorry I missed it all in my Windows7 induced downtime yesterday. Not gonna get involved now except to say that as always there's interesting stuff goin' on here in your grotto, brother!

Hannah said...

I agree with PENolan on this subject-It's not necessarily religion per se that's the problem, its the morons who use it to persecute women, gays, other religions, etc.

The stories in the Bible and other religious documents are parables and I think people should filter what they read in it. Take the good, positive messages and leave out the bad. (Which are more reflections of attitudes from long ago anyways)

Lemmy Caution said...

Take the good, positive messages and leave out the bad.

A nice sentiment, but as any history book or current newspaper will illustrate to you.....that's not the way it works.

Hannah said...

Lemmy-Well maybe not for some people, but its been working fine for me. (Although, admittedly, I'm not 'hardcore religious' and tend to be more of a spiritual-type person.:))

Dr. Monkey Von Monkerstein said...

You know what? Unless you agree 100% with the Christian Taliban they are offended. Unless you are a zombie for Jeebus like they are they get offended. I'm over them and their made up religion. And you've got a right to say whatever you like about it. Screw them and I hope I just offended every one of them.

Blue aka "The Creeper" said...

Wow, take a couple days off and you miss a lot...apparently! lol.
Cal, Cal, Cal... you silly blogging fool. I, although not religious or a believer do recognize gasoline when I see it. What was it I read once? Never talk politics or religion...crap I forgot the rest. Point being still in this day and age when we are "smarter" than our 10th century ancestors we still fight to the death in far off places over religion.
We aren't any smarter-we think we are and that's the difference. We're still ignorant monkeys in the trees. (I haven't read up on the disproving of Darwins theory yet so I still do think we are descended from apes).
We don't hate you...well some of us don't, not sure about the rest. lol. You sure know how to throw the match on the bonfire my friend. And for the record, I have no use for that book although I recognize some do, to each their own. I'm with PENolan's comment.

joe said...

I don't hate you, Cal. I don't agree with what you said, but I can't hate you. Hopefully we can be friends in spite of our differences.

joe said...

... in spite of the fact that I never seem to hear from you these days... just sayin'..

John said...

I'm not a Christian and don't go to church. But anyone ignorant and narrow-minded enough to say the ugly things you did about the Bible, whether you believe it is a useful or truthful tome or not, doesn't deserve to be read. Have a good life, idiot.

vancouver mark said...

When I hear the typical argument against God blaming him for all the wars and atrocities that have ben done in his name, I have to ask - -
Do you feel the same bile and bitterness against "freedom" and "democracy"? Look at all the wicked shit that's been done in their name. Do you identify better with enlightened atheist leaders like Stalin, or Genghis Khan?

This world today is run by "the princes of the power of the air," an elite that often call themselves Christian, or Muslim, or Jew. Judge them by their actions and you'll know quickly that they are none of the above.

And consider looking away from the brutalities of the Old Testament. That was a primitive book for a primitive people in primitive times. Christ brought a new way. Do you find brutality in his words? Show me.

When i hear people respond so venomously to any mention of God I can't help wondering just what it is they're so unhappy about in their life.

Lemmy Caution said...

Do you find brutality in his words? Show me.


Matthew 10:21 And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death.

Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Matthew 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

Matthew 13:41-42 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

That wasn't too hard. Pretty easy actually. But then again, asking to find brutal words from someone who commanded to be followed or be tortured for eternity.....that's not too difficult.

When i hear people respond so venomously to any mention of God I can't help wondering just what it is they're so unhappy about in their life.When i hear people respond so venomously to any mention of God I can't help wondering just what it is they're so unhappy about in their life..

You assume. I don't know a single atheist that isn't just as happy or not moreso than a theist.

Atheists live a happy a moral life because it's the right thing to do. Not under threat of punishment or promise of reward.

Artman2112 said...

to take the above statement even further, the bible takes morality out of man's sphere of choice because it says we are guilty by nature i.e. orignal sin. i can't think of a more viscious or destructive concept than that.

vancouver mark said...

Come on Cal, I submitted a response to Lemmy's quotes and you won't post it?
Cmon buddy let's not give Canadians a bad name...

vancouver mark said...

I'll try my reponse to Lemmy again and see if it posts...

The first three quotes you cite are lines from a speak wherein Christ tells his followers what they may expect in following him. Their brother, their father, even their children may turn against them, they may be arrested to be questioned and to be tortured or executed by the enemies of God. But who should you fear, the one who can only hurt and kill your body but can't touch your soul, or the one who has the power over both your body and soul?
And following Christ does not guarantee anyone peace on earth, not in this life, certainly. His word is described as a sword, not an olive branch. Trust me, trying to follow the word and way of Jesus Christ can make your life much more challenging, inconvenient and potentially dangerous. But "he that taketh not his cross, and followeth not after me, is not worthy of me," so there you go.
So i would describe no brutality in the first three quotes you selected, but there certainly is in the last one. Angels scouring the earth for the evil ones and casting them into a furnace of fire, yikes. This is part of a parable and you took a little end bit out of context. This is from a parable where Jesus describes our world as a garden, which the gardener's enemies have tried to spoil by scattering nasty weed seeds among the good crop. Now the weeds and the grain are growing tangled together, and if the gardeners were to pull out the weeds they'd uproot the good plants, so the decision is made to let them grow together, until the harvest. Then the plants will be separated, the good grain taken into the barn, and the weeds bundled up and burned in the furnace. And so it shall be on the day of judgement, and why not? It's HIS garden, he built it, planted and tended it, and he will do what he wants with it. And he's kind enough to tell us exactly what we need to do to be one of the grains in the barn instead of a weed in the fire. It's our choice.

And as for my assesment of the bitter anger in Cal's post, you're right, I am assuming. But I've been a counselor in a children's program long enough to know anger and unhappiness when I hear it. His post, and saying "hate me if you like," reminds me of the kid I saw who smeared shit all over his foster mom's bathroom towels, and when he was confronted said "go ahead and hate me, I know you hate me anyway so go ahead."
I assumed that kid was angry and unhappy, but maybe I was wrong?

Artman2112 said...

" But who should you fear, the one who can only hurt and kill your body but can't touch your soul, or the one who has the power over both your body and soul?"

and that's what it's all about isnt it, FEAR! what a lovely fraid be very afraid, judge not lest ye be judged yourself, the lord giveth and the lord taketh away, you're guilty by birth, christ died for YOUR sins so you'd better be good or you'll sufer the eternal fires of damnation.
but to be one of the "good" grains in the barn just just put your donation in the cup and pass it on.

Lemmy Caution said...

A child smearing shit on walls and Cal's post attacking the Bible doesn't really make for a clear analogy.

I stick by the quotes I pulled...they are brutal in their intentions and deed. Not to mention I could spend all day pulling ugly quotes from that book.

At the end of the day, arguing over the supposed words of "Jesus" is akin to arguing over different translations of what Harry Potter may or may not have said.

From the virgin birth to the twelve apostles to the execution and resurrection.....the Jesus story is as old as time.

Just one of COUNTLESS religious myths that served as an attempt of stone and bronze age people to explain what they couldn't yet understand.

There were thousands of religions before Christianity, and there have been thousands since. There is not one single reason that it has any more credibility than the rest.

Calvin's Nuggets of Wisdom said...

Hmmm, I remember looking at your post, and smiling because it was a clever take on the bible. whoof! who knew it would cause so much drama?! people rarely have the perspective to see the hyprocrocy in their beliefs, and those most offended and venomous in their attacks are those that hold the bible in the highest esteem. don't worry about them Cal, religion's days are numbered and hopefully the human race is going to evolve past our need for it.

a rose is a rose said...

i agree to an extent. it's a book written BY man FOR man. it was written due to fear. fear of the unknown.

i do NOT agree it should be burned though. burning books (EXCEPT those by and inpsired by l ron hubbard) is far more dangerous than the fantasy of religion

Darius Whiteplume said...

If we don't give up on these silly superstitions the Vulcans are never going to come and aid our warp drive technology. I'm just sayin'.