Today I woke up to mail in my inbox as usual and I was struck by the comment that Brother Paladin made. Despite being the official conservative gun nut (and I say that with great affection) of the 'Cave of Cool' if find him to be a thoughtful advocate for his side. I am about as liberal, progressive, socialist, french, gay and Muslim as you can get at times and he still can find a way to challenge my beliefs and make reasonable arguments. He is the conservative I have been waiting my whole life for. For once a conversation with someone on the Right doesn't make me want to instantly go for my shovel (or a bag of frozen oranges) I thought that his comment and my response were worthy or reprint here. Are there lessons here? Maybe. Are minds being changed? Definitely.
Paladin said...
Political discourse in the US has always been a ramped up caricature of the underlying differences that divide the two sides. People continue to promote the idea that Rush, Beck, et.all are breaking ground in their rhetoric these days. I would also include Olberman, Mathews, et. al. in the list of cartoon characters.
The truth of the matter, for anyone that has looked at political rantings throughout our history, is that modern day rhetoric pales in comparison - regardless of how much you and I may dislike what we hear from both sides today.
Looking forward with glee to one's own side feasting on the red meat this tragedy offers up is more of the same - though I'll not try to convince you of that. Suffice to say, there truly is no new thing under the sun.
A lone, obviously disturbed, stoner will be the impetus for all sorts of calls for change. The bodies aren't even cold yet and blame of the tea party, talk radio, the Right, Conservatives, Gun Owners, and virtually anyone to the Political Right of whoever it is pointing a finger at the time. This is in spite of the fact that there's absolutely no evidence that he was even a listener to conservative talk radio, a member of the teaparty, or even knew who Sarah Palin is. The same thing happens on the Right under similar circumstance.
There will be suggested solutions to solve this problem offered up in the days to come. I don't think the problem will be solved, but maybe I'm wrong. I would caution you, however, to be skeptical of anything remotely involving legally silencing or reigning in the rhetoric that you do not like. My reason for that caveat is very simple.
Who decides what is acceptable rhetoric and what is not?
Is it the same people who refuse to prosecute armed Black Panther thugs intimidating voters on polling place grounds, while denying conservative voters the right to cast their vote because they wear a sweatshirt with a teaparty logo on it? Is it the same people who turn a blind eye to SEIU thugs beating up a black conservative man in a wheel chair because he dared to hand out little flags at a rally?
I'll steal a quote:
"If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - forever."
Cal said...
Wow buddy, that was terrific. I mean that. I can be expected to go over the top crazy in the hours and days following one of these incidents. It's just my way. What you wrote brought me back from the edge. Using that quote from 1984 hit me right where I live too.
I know the connection to Palin may be thin but I can't help find satisfaction in the fact that this event has gotten to her. It has scared the shit out of her. That much is evident from the sanitizing of her twitter and facebook posts. No matter what she does, Lady McBeth cannot wash the blood from her hands.
The blame she carries for this is the blame we all carry. Keith Oberman may be in love with the sound of his own voice too much for me at times but he got this one right. Everyone needs to step back from the rhetoric. Even though their may not be a connection between the shooter and the politics of fear and hate - we ALL went there in our minds when we first got the news. We all recognize there is a problem here is that is the perception.
And it is about perception. I am reminded of 9/11 when good people who truly wanted change were perverted by the power and freedom they now had. All events from the Patriot Act, warrantless wire taps, renditions, waterboarding, ect came out of a sincere desire to prevent what happened in New York from ever happening again.
Events like this make it too easy to demonize the other side. It's a very human trap to fall into. I fell into it and I like to think I can be above such things.
But I still want my pound of flesh from Sarah Palin. I want to hear her, for once, admit that she just might be in the wrong.
That will do a lot to begin the healing.
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12 comments:
Cal, I think you care more about Sarah Palin than anyone I know. 9 out of 10 United Statians (Canada is in America too) couldn't care less about her. That may change if she gets a nod for presidental candidate in 2012, but lets be serious, that would be suicide for any party that nominated her.
I care because I dislike her so much. I want to see her gone but she just won't go away. If I have to have her in my face 24/7 you better believe I am going to enjoy watching her try to squirm her way out of this one. The rats who support her will also be flushed into the open with their cries of her innocence. I will enjoy watching everyone who thought she was so great suddenly have nothing to say about her. When she makes that long slow walk to the deepest ice crevice in Alaska she can find I am finally sure that we are rid of her then I will stop my relentless critisisms of her. She is a terrible human being and the planet will be better off to be rid of her. My hate for her keeps me warm at night.
I learn more here than anyone will ever learn from me. That's why I come here and post, instead of just lurking in the background for the areas of interest that originally led me to your Tumblr and subsequently your Blog. I fail at times to express what is in my heart and mind as well as I would like. My conversations here with you, other commenters, and other more or less liberal blogs on the net help me understand myself and the world better.
I don't fault you a bit, Cal, for feeling pushed the the edge by the viscious, senseless attack in Arizona. The face of the little girl in particular fill me with a rage that is frightening.
As far as Palin goes, you know my affection for her and her political stances in general. She wouldn't get my vote for President, however. Part of the reasons for that have been clarified in my own mind by the discussions that I've had with you and other people here - and I thank you for that.
Maybe *I* should run for President?.... Naw, I couldn't get elected as Dogcatcher.
Which is ironic, because I actually AM a Dogcatcher :)
I ditto having Paladin around. I'm lucky enough to have a good friend here who is on the opposite side of things at times and I count him as one of my best friends.
PS I'm kind of a gun nut too. I got my first .22 when I was 11. I've grown out my my gun-nuttiness a bit. Sold off most of my collection, but kept enough for the inevitable zombie attack. Even a lot of liberals like me in AZ own guns, and know what to do with them.
I was raised around guns. My father was a soldier and I was an air cadet. I have shot them at a range many time. I have a healthy respect for them but I don't want guns around me.
It's a Canadian thing. Less fear of our government has a lot to do with it. We trust our police to protect us and don't feel like we need to have a gun to do that job.
Plus, it's hard to get a gun in Canada - certainly harder than it is in the US. Like with most things we see something that can negatively affect your society like guns in the hands of the people who shouldn't have them and we try to avoid those kinds of incidents.
I deny and all attempts to smear both sides of the political spectrum in this shooting. People on the left do not use gun metaphors, crosshair sights, and other violent imagery invoked by the right. The conservatives are quick to point out that this is an 'isolated incident' that was perpetrated by a lone nut job. How many isolated incidents do we have to have before someone sees that the rhetoric on the right by Palin, Beck, Limbaugh, et al, is responsible for sending these lone nuts off the edge?
Cal.. "All events from the Patriot Act, warrantless wire taps, renditions, waterboarding, ect came out of a sincere desire to prevent what happened in New York from ever happening again."
Really? While I think there was some of that, I think it was a power grab of giant proportions. A chance for then President Cheney, because Bush was way overwhelmed, to push his agenda. Remember this is the guy who said all day to day office papers were classified documents and not for public view. I don't think he could resist a chance to push forward the patriot act on a scared America.
That being said, I don't think this should be an excuse for similar acts. I hope that this will settle things between the huge political divide in this country. But I don't see that happening, folks like paladin are hard to find on both sides. There is too much talk and not enough thought.
I'm sure I will have more to say on this issue, I am still digesting news and posts since I was away over the weekend.
Great post and thank you both for sharing it.
Thanks for your contribution cerebus. I wrote this post when I first got up and after reading Paladin's comment. Maybe I was being too reasonable. You are right of course. All the crap that Bush and Cheney pulled WAS one big power grab and like anyone who gains power, it also corrupted by it.
All the chickens seem to be coming back to roost on this one. I am heartened by the fact that good people are finally becoming empowered enough to say ENOUGH.
I still haven't calmed down enough to leave an intelligent comment. But this is some good stuff, here.
But Budd, I can't think of anyone I know who DOESN'T have some kind of opinion about Sarah...
"Is it the same people who refuse to prosecute armed Black Panther thugs intimidating voters on polling place grounds" there were two black guys in leather jackets and sunglasses at a polling place and Fox News ginned this up as the New Black Panther Party. No one was intimidated from voting, just some folks scared of blacks.
"while denying conservative voters the right to cast their vote because they wear a sweatshirt with a teaparty logo on it?" No one is allowed to have anything on in a polling center that maybe deemed as political advertising. No signs, no buttons, no banners etc.
"Is it the same people who turn a blind eye to SEIU thugs beating up a black conservative man in a wheel chair because he dared to hand out little flags at a rally?"
This is bullshit, the guy was not in a wheelchair, refused medical treatment was later out scamming people for non-existent medical bills.
You are entitled to your opinions but not your facts
Maddow & Olberman may be loud they may be angry,and to smug for some (including me)but they are not going on the air spewing lies about "death panels" or that Obama is not a citizen. Show me where Olbermann
went on the air deciphering 80 year old murals from Rockefeller Center
that showed a connection between the old Soviet Union and General Electric/NBC which is housed in Rockefeller center.
csmith - I'm with largely with you on the Patriot Act. Even if viewed through the lens of good intentions (which is indeed debateable) circumventing the protections of my Constitution is not desireable.
Cal- I totally respect your personal viewpoint on Guns. People who don't wish to involve themselves with firearms will get no argument from me.
I carry a gun any time and any place that it is legal for me to do so. I'd carry a Policeman around instead, but they are much to heavy.
On Smash - The "death panel" rhetoric is overblown, I agree with that. Much of that blowup stems from either people reading into the healthcare bill and seeing what they want to see, or people just spouting off what they've heard as opposed to reading the entire bill themselves. I've read it myself, btw. Boring as shit, but very informative.
As for your analysis of the events I mentioned: Its not OK for people to intimidate voters, even if it is just whitey.
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